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Preliminary Hearing in the Bob Bashara Murder Trial

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kittygirl wrote:Jessica is an extraordinary young woman.  So strong and composed.  I can't imagine being able to do what she was able to do.  
His sitting there, not responding to this dignified child, was abusive. Reprehensible. Showing no response to this child is just despicable!



Last edited by chewet on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarified statement. (Laker, watching this evil creature makes us all so darn angry none of us can see/think straight!!))

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52 Questions for all on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:53 pm

Some time ago there was supposedly evidence that Joe Gentz took a bus home from McDonalds. Now I heard testimony that he was picked up by a female friend who was dropping off Gregory Borraco to retrieve his car. I cannot locate the woman's name. However, shouldn't the woman who picked him up and drove him home(?) be on the witness list ? And what is the distance from the McDonalds to where the car was dumped ?



Last edited by smallal on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : found name Gregory Borraco)

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smallal wrote:Some time ago there was supposedly evidence that Joe Gentz took a bus home from McDonalds. Now I heard testimony that he was picked up by a female friend who was dropping off Gregory Borraco to retrieve his car. I cannot locate the woman's name. However, shouldn't the woman who picked him up and drove him home(?) be on the witness list ? And what is the distance from the McDonalds to where the car was dumped ?
The distance is like between 6 and 7 miles I think, but I think he took the bus or train or some form of public transit to get to the McDonalds.

The woman's name is Francis, not sure if she is an upcoming witness or not...


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Good morning J4Jers!

Here's a link to channel 7, WXYZ:

http://www.wxyz.com/subindex/news/news_livestream

Court is about to begin (phew, just as peeps are all starting to think the power's out again...)


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I have been trying to follow when I can throughout the day... how is it looking!


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justanopinion wrote:I have been trying to follow when I can throughout the day... how is it looking!
I'd say it's looking like he doesn't have a chance in hell of ever seeing the outside of a prison.  If he were any kind of a man, he'd plead out and save everyone the details.  What a scum.  There really isn't a strong enough word.  I watched on the Freep site today, which has its camera trained on him the entire time.  Twice I watched him look at Rachel with saw a sad, sorrowful smile.  He looked as if he was sorry she had to 'endure' this trouble with Lisa Lindsay.  She seemed almost reluctant to testify and cried at different times throughout.  If I had to venture a guess, I'd say they're still involved.



Last edited by Bricktop on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a word)

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58 been thinking back... on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 1:18 pm

Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...

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Some of the things that are being implied in this prelim... are quite telling IMO. Whatever the little joke was between Blob and his lawyer just before Jessica took the stand. The determination in Jessica's voice. Rachel's breakdowns on the stand (she sounds very hurt)(and a little naive) the admissions about the gun...

starting to make JG sound a little more credible if that is even possible given his demeanour and intellect. Wondering why the Crown is hammering away that no one heard of JG before this (did Rachel know him? did Jessica know him? yet he supposedly had the utilities in JG's apt in BB's name)

When this all goes to trial it will be even more salacious than the Jodi Arias trial I am thinking. JMOO


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justanopinion wrote:Some of the things that are being implied in this prelim... are quite telling IMO. Whatever the little joke was between Blob and his lawyer just before Jessica took the stand. The determination in Jessica's voice. Rachel's breakdowns on the stand (she sounds very hurt)(and a little naive) the admissions about the gun...

starting to make JG sound a little more credible if that is even possible given his demeanour and intellect. Wondering why the Crown is hammering away that no one heard of JG before this (did Rachel know him? did Jessica know him? yet he supposedly had the utilities in JG's apt in BB's name)

When this all goes to trial it will be even more salacious than the Jodi Arias trial I am thinking. JMOO
I think they keep talking about knowing Gentz because if you were really really scared and threatened by someone and then your wife came up missing wouldn't that be the first thing you would tell police? The timing of when Bob shared his suspicions is suspect...it's like his carjacking story didn't get believed so he moved on to gentz...then the private investigator...


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kittygirl wrote:
justanopinion wrote:Some of the things that are being implied in this prelim... are quite telling IMO. Whatever the little joke was between Blob and his lawyer just before Jessica took the stand. The determination in Jessica's voice. Rachel's breakdowns on the stand (she sounds very hurt)(and a little naive) the admissions about the gun...

starting to make JG sound a little more credible if that is even possible given his demeanour and intellect. Wondering why the Crown is hammering away that no one heard of JG before this (did Rachel know him? did Jessica know him? yet he supposedly had the utilities in JG's apt in BB's name)

When this all goes to trial it will be even more salacious than the Jodi Arias trial I am thinking. JMOO
I think they keep talking about knowing Gentz because if you were really really scared and threatened by someone and then your wife came up missing wouldn't that be the first thing you would tell police?  The timing of when Bob shared his suspicions is suspect...it's like his carjacking story didn't get believed so he moved on to gentz...then the private investigator...
Absolutely right, Kitty.

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TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...
It's truly despicable of those people. I'm apologize but I think it's a load of BS that the mother had no idea a gun was in that pouch. Please!


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Justice4Jane wrote:
TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...
It's truly despicable of those people.  I'm apologize but I think it's a load of BS that the mother had no idea a gun was in that pouch.  Please!
I completely agree!! That was a really thin vinyl pouch. I think she and Stephanie realized that it was all going to come out and figured that it was time to try to cover themselves. There's no way she thought that pouch contained some jewelry and a few watches. That pouch didn't even look like it had any type of closure... No zipper. Nothing that I could see.

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Bricktop wrote:
Justice4Jane wrote:
TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...
It's truly despicable of those people.  I'm apologize but I think it's a load of BS that the mother had no idea a gun was in that pouch.  Please!
I completely agree!!  That was a really thin vinyl pouch.  I think she and Stephanie realized that it was all going to come out and figured that it was time to try to cover themselves.  There's no way she thought that pouch contained some jewelry and a few watches.  That pouch didn't even look like it had any type of closure...   No zipper.  Nothing that I could see.  
Hiya bricktop! It's a joke, the gun had to weigh a few pounds and I'm sure they did not just grab the pouch by the tiny corner to transport it. Remember when the mother was frantically searching through his car? Makes ya wonder!
I was also thinking that it must not be registered to him so if he "picked" it up on the street it may be linked to other crimes, it will be so interesting to hear if LE has ballistics on it!


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http://youtu.be/Xhyqkb0wvU4

Old interview the Master gave......full cooperation from him, his family and his attorney.....well we all know that was BS!


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Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012. When did he hide the gun for Bob?


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I am trying to listen but so far I only know July 2012 from listening to the testimony.


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Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.


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David Griem asks to be removed as Bob Bashara's attorney
www.wxyz.com › News › Region › Wayne County
Jul 18, 2012 - 7 Action News has learned the Bob Bashara's attorney David Griem is ... Wednesday afternoon, Attorney David Griem declined an interview but ...


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Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...


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Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Great catch!  Now we know why!

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Justice4Jane wrote:David Griem asks to be removed as Bob Bashara's attorney
www.wxyz.com › News › Region › Wayne County
Jul 18, 2012 - 7 Action News has learned the Bob Bashara's attorney David Griem is ... Wednesday afternoon, Attorney David Griem declined an interview but ...
---
Griem said he and Bashara differ on case strategy and asserted that attorney-client privilege prevents him from detailing the reasons. Revealing the differences also would tip off Wayne County prosecuting attorneys.

Source:  http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/07/26/news/doc500fe494d0ecb031489391.txt
-----
(BBM)

Makes perfect sense, now!



Last edited by CuriousPortlander on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed link)

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The timing and circumstances of Griem giving the gun to authorities is hinky.

    His [Griem's] attorney, Kenneth Mogill, contacted him a week ago and informed him he had informed Wayne County Prosecutors about the gun, he said.

    “Mr. Griem acted appropriately, in a manner designed fully to protect and that did fully protect the integrity of potential evidence, and he was promptly, fully cooperative with authorities when contacted,” Mogill said via email Monday night.

    http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20130909/bashara-hearing-sex-lies-and-a-gun  


Fully cooperative with authorities when contacted, so apparently Griem didn't initiate the contact to authorities re the gun?  Hmm...

Remember that Stephanie found the bullets in mid August 2013, called the local Canadian police, who then transferred them to Wayne County authorities.  This is speculation, but at that point almost surely investigators interrogated Stephanie about this and likely asked her if she knew of any other evidence about a gun --- and she answered truthfully (perhaps under threat of prosecution for evidence tampering) that she had given the gun from the safety box to Griem.

Speculating further, that revelation caused the authorities to contact attorney Mogill in late August to get confirmation about Griem having the gun, Mogill confirmed it --- which has a different connotation than "informed Wayne County Prosecutors" about it as he stated above.  At that point, Griem "cooperated" with authorities.

Why else after holding the gun for 14 months, would Griem hand it over a few weeks after the bullets were found, especially since two "well regarded" attorneys advised  him in 2012 not to turn it over to investigators?  I think finding the bullets let to uncovering the gun as the timing is more than a coincidence, imo.

And how can Griem claim attorney-client privilege if the persons (Stephanie, Nancy, & Laura) who gave him the gun weren't even his clients?

Remember too it was sometime mid summer last year that his mother was recorded in a phone call from Bob in jail that she "was done with him." Wonder if finding the gun was one of the last straws ...



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EllsBells wrote:The timing and circumstances of Griem giving the gun to authorities is hinky.

    His [Griem's] attorney, Kenneth Mogill, contacted him a week ago and informed him he had informed Wayne County Prosecutors about the gun, he said.

    “Mr. Griem acted appropriately, in a manner designed fully to protect and that did fully protect the integrity of potential evidence, and he was promptly, fully cooperative with authorities when contacted,” Mogill said via email Monday night.

    http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20130909/bashara-hearing-sex-lies-and-a-gun  


Fully cooperative with authorities when contacted, so apparently Griem didn't initiate the contact to authorities re the gun?  Hmm...

Remember that Stephanie found the bullets in mid August 2013, called the local Canadian police, who then transferred them to Wayne County authorities.  This is speculation, but at that point almost surely investigators interrogated Stephanie about this and likely asked her if she knew of any other evidence about a gun --- and she answered truthfully (perhaps under threat of prosecution for evidence tampering) that she had given the gun from the safety box to Griem.

Speculating further, that revelation caused the authorities to contact attorney Mogill in late August to get confirmation about Griem having the gun, Mogill confirmed it --- which has a different connotation than "informed Wayne County Prosecutors" about it as he stated above.  At that point, Griem "cooperated" with authorities.

Why else after holding the gun for 14 months, would Griem hand it over a few weeks after the bullets were found, especially since two "well regarded" attorneys advised  him in 2012 not to turn it over to investigators?  I think finding the bullets let to uncovering the gun as the timing is more than a coincidence, imo.

And how can Griem claim attorney-client privilege if the persons (Stephanie, Nancy, & Laura) who gave him the gun weren't even his clients?

Remember too it was sometime mid summer last year that his mother was recorded in a phone call from Bob in jail that she "was done with him." Wonder if finding the gun was one of the last straws ...



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I too was thinking Stephanie turning in the bullets started the ball rolling on "where's the gun." If they knew they were hiding the gun, why did she turn in the bullets? Something must have spurred her on. During her testimony, I think she said that at some point she called griem to ask about the gun. I wonder if she called him after she found the bullets? Did I also read in the blog somewhere that his mother and stephanie were threatened with 5 years of jail time because of their involvement with hiding the gun? I totally agree with you Ells--something about all of this is hinky.

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chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...
makes me sick!! making money/ratings off of Jane's life. I wish there was a way this could be stopped. I wonder how Nancy Grace, et al would like it if her life (or her sibling or friend or parent) were put on display simply for viewers viewing entertainment. Seems like--in this case at least--these people are making their living off the blood of innocent victims!

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chewet wrote:
Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.
Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!

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Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:
Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.
Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!
Each bizarre event and character is topped by the next. This gun scenario absolutely dumbfounds me. Blob states he does not own a gun. Gives his mom a pouch containing a gun and tells her its just some jewelry to place in a safe deposit box. Four months later, his mom (just on a whim) goes to the bank and peeks inside and see's a gun. Then she takes her daughter and niece to the bank and shows them the gun. (Not sure this is what transposed). After they take the gun home, by coincidence at a meeting with Griem they show him the gun and he takes it into possession. Fast forward 14 -- fourteen months. The niece discovers bullets and turns them into authorities, which leads to Griem surrendering the weapon to State police. Sorry, I may have misrepresented this series of events but this is one helluva story to swallow.
In addition from this link below, how does an attorney hold onto a weapon that may have been used in a felony for over a year and just coincidentally turns it in when "bullets" are discovered ? Give ma a break !
Clip from following article below:
http://www.freep.com/article/20130909/NEWS05/309090014
Larry Dubin, a University of Detroit Mercy law professor who teaches legal ethics, said a lawyer cannot hide a weapon that had some involvement in a crime that the lawyer’s client is now charged with.

“The first question would be whether a gun is relevant to the criminal case in question,” Dubin said. “If it is relevant and a lawyer comes into the possession of that gun, the lawyer cannot hide the gun and would generally be under an obligation as an officer of the court to have the gun turned over to the prosecution.”

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Griem on the gun ....

http://www.freep.com/article/20130909/NEWS05/309090014

“I followed the directions of both of those lawyers,” he said. “I safeguarded the gun in a locked room in the office.”

If he had left gun at Bashara’s home and the gun had disappeared, then Griem said he believes there would have been an issue.

“I don’t know if the gun played any role in the alleged crime,” he said.

Really ??? Joe Gentz said Blob pointed a gun at him, Blob says he doesn't own a gun, this is clearly Blob's gun. What planet does Griem reside on ? If you don't know, turn it in and let the authorities decide. Geez

One more thing Mr Griem, there was no "alleged crime" a woman was brutally murdered .. MORON !

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Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:
Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.
Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!
We'll probably never know the true situation, but there are two possibilities:

a) Innocent version: Nancy deposited the bag of items from Bob into the safety deposit box in March 2012 and never looked at the items.  When she went back in July to get the will for revision, she inspected the box, saw the gun, was alarmed, then called Stephanie and Laura to meet her at the bank to view jointly the contents.

b) Nefarious version:  Nancy did inspect the contents before depositing them, saw the gun, but wanted to protect her son and said nothing.  Then when Bob's house of cards fell down --- especially his arrest for the hit on Gentz in June 2012 and other very incriminating evidence --- she realized that the game was up, that investigators could get a subpoena for the box, that she was the only one who deposited items since Jane's murder, and that she could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice (hiding evidence).  Angry that her son was setting her up, she established a ruse of wanting to revise her will, arranged for her daughter to come to town, and scheduled a joint "first" witnessing of the gun.

I don't know, lots of arguments on both sides:

a) Given that BB was a person of interest from the beginning, given his long history of deceit and using people --- which surely Nancy knew --- why wasn't she suspicious in March 2012 about the contents of the box and Bob's request that SHE deposit it? Did she still think her son wouldn't set up his mother as the fall-guy --- use her by claiming it was Mom's gun or that she was colluding in the crime?  

b) A mother's love is blind and even objective facts are protectively denied.

c) She was solidly behind her son in March 2012, but lost too much trust by July 2012 and threw in the towel.

d) She set it up that all three went along with the recommendation of giving the gun to Griem, knowing he could claim attorney-client privilege and effectively hide the gun.

Regardless, the discovery of the gun removes a HUGE argument for reasonable doubt. Gentz claims BB threatened to kill him with a gun if he didn't strangle Jane, but until Griem turned over the gun there was no evidence that Bob ever owned a gun which seriously undercut Gentz's credibility.

It seems to me that Prosecutors have corroborated by several sources all of Gentz's improbable story including:
--- a plan to kill Jane with an insulin overdose,
--- a plan to kill her by a t-bone car accident,
--- that Bob held a gun to him to strangle Jane,
--- that Bob was shopping around for a hitman, hence Gentz was the chosen hitman, groomed by gifts of free apartment and utilities, hardly a disgruntled employee as BB contends.

Gentz may be intellectually challenged, but so far there is lots of credible corroboration for what seems an improbable story --- only goes to prove that truth is stranger than fiction.


Shocked

.



Last edited by EllsBells on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total


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EllsBells wrote:
Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:
Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?
Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.
Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!
We'll probably never know the true situation, but there are two possibilities:

a) Innocent version: Nancy deposited the bag of items from Bob into the safety deposit box in March 2012 and never looked at the items.  When she went back in July to get the will for revision, she inspected the box, saw the gun, was alarmed, then called Stephanie and Laura to meet her at the bank to view jointly the contents.

b) Nefarious version:  Nancy did inspect the contents before depositing them, saw the gun, but wanted to protect her son and said nothing.  Then when Bob's house of cards fell down --- especially his arrest for the hit on Gentz in June 2012 and other very incriminating evidence --- she realized that the game was up, that investigators could get a subpoena for the box, that she was the only one who deposited items since Jane's murder, and that she could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice (hiding evidence).  Angry that her son was setting her up, she established a ruse of wanting to revise her will, arranged for her daughter to come to town, and scheduled a joint "first" witnessing of the gun.

I don't know, lots of arguments on both sides:

a) Given that BB was a person of interest from the beginning, given his long history of deceit and using people --- which surely Nancy knew --- why wasn't she suspicious in March 2012 about the contents of the box and Bob's request that SHE deposit it? Did she still think her son wouldn't set up his mother as the fall-guy --- use her by claiming it was Mom's gun or that she was colluding in the crime?  

b) A mother's love is blind and even objective facts are protectively denied.

c) She was solidly behind her son in March 2012, but lost too much trust by July 2012 and threw in the towel.

d) She set it up that all three went along with the recommendation of giving the gun to Griem, knowing he could claim attorney-client privilege and effectively hide the gun.

Regardless, the discovery of the gun removes a HUGE argument for reasonable doubt. Gentz claims BB threatened to kill him with a gun if he didn't strangle Jane, but until Griem turned over the gun there was no evidence that Bob ever owned a gun which seriously undercut Gentz's credibility.

It seems to me that Prosecutors have corroborated by several sources all of Gentz's improbable story including:
--- a plan to kill Jane with an insulin overdose,
--- a plan to kill her by a t-bone car accident,
--- that Bob held a gun to him to strangle Jane.

Gentz may be intellectually challenged, but so far there is lots of credible corroboration for what seems an improbable story --- only goes to prove that truth is stranger than fiction.


Shocked

.
I like your nefarious mind ! Probably a combination of events you described but none as innocent as purported.

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smallal wrote:
EllsBells wrote:
Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.
Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!
We'll probably never know the true situation, but there are two possibilities:

a) Innocent version: Nancy deposited the bag of items from Bob into the safety deposit box in March 2012 and never looked at the items.  When she went back in July to get the will for revision, she inspected the box, saw the gun, was alarmed, then called Stephanie and Laura to meet her at the bank to view jointly the contents.

b) Nefarious version:  Nancy did inspect the contents before depositing them, saw the gun, but wanted to protect her son and said nothing.  Then when Bob's house of cards fell down --- especially his arrest for the hit on Gentz in June 2012 and other very incriminating evidence --- she realized that the game was up, that investigators could get a subpoena for the box, that she was the only one who deposited items since Jane's murder, and that she could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice (hiding evidence).  Angry that her son was setting her up, she established a ruse of wanting to revise her will, arranged for her daughter to come to town, and scheduled a joint "first" witnessing of the gun.

I don't know, lots of arguments on both sides:

a) Given that BB was a person of interest from the beginning, given his long history of deceit and using people --- which surely Nancy knew --- why wasn't she suspicious in March 2012 about the contents of the box and Bob's request that SHE deposit it? Did she still think her son wouldn't set up his mother as the fall-guy --- use her by claiming it was Mom's gun or that she was colluding in the crime?  

b) A mother's love is blind and even objective facts are protectively denied.

c) She was solidly behind her son in March 2012, but lost too much trust by July 2012 and threw in the towel.

d) She set it up that all three went along with the recommendation of giving the gun to Griem, knowing he could claim attorney-client privilege and effectively hide the gun.

Regardless, the discovery of the gun removes a HUGE argument for reasonable doubt. Gentz claims BB threatened to kill him with a gun if he didn't strangle Jane, but until Griem turned over the gun there was no evidence that Bob ever owned a gun which seriously undercut Gentz's credibility.

It seems to me that Prosecutors have corroborated by several sources all of Gentz's improbable story including:
--- a plan to kill Jane with an insulin overdose,
--- a plan to kill her by a t-bone car accident,
--- that Bob held a gun to him to strangle Jane.

Gentz may be intellectually challenged, but so far there is lots of credible corroboration for what seems an improbable story --- only goes to prove that truth is stranger than fiction.


Shocked

.
I like your nefarious mind ! Probably a combination of events you described but none as innocent as purported.
How much do you think the gun weighs?  Wouldn't the two watches need to be pretty hefty to surpass the weight of it? A few coins and necklaces don't weigh much...My Mother trusted me to the inth degree, yet if I asked her to do the same thing, she'd ask me right off -- what else is in the bag; it's too heavy for just watches and a few coins

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(Obsessively viewing hours of testimony on YouTube. Search "Bashara".) Have to say I understand the logic of safeguarding the gun by Griem. It becomes potential "evidence" against his client when charges were filed and that is when it's existence had to be revealed. If BB had never been charged (and I shudder to think that could have happened), the gun as evidence in a crime is moot. In a court of law, it's not about what happened; it's about what you can prove happened beyond a shadow of doubt. So no charges filed/no evidence required.

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Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...
makes me sick!! making money/ratings off of Jane's life. I wish there was a way this could be stopped. I wonder how Nancy Grace, et al would like it if her life (or her sibling or friend or parent) were put on display simply for viewers viewing entertainment. Seems like--in this case at least--these people are making their living off the blood of innocent victims!
Hate to say it Fifteen, but Nancy Grace has built a career exploiting her own situation with her fiance's murder. She brings it up every chance possible. I'm with you!

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GPPGRL wrote:(Obsessively viewing hours of testimony on YouTube. Search "Bashara".) Have to say I understand the logic of safeguarding the gun by Griem. It becomes potential "evidence" against his client when charges were filed and that is when it's existence had to be revealed. If BB had never been charged (and I shudder to think that could have happened), the gun as evidence in a crime is moot. In a court of law, it's not about what happened; it's about what you can prove happened beyond a shadow of doubt. So no charges filed/no evidence required.
I'm not understanding your logic. Bashara was charged with Jane's murder in April 2013 (see reference), so Griem should have turned over the gun then per your argument (when charged, then turn over the gun).

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/21992942/prosecutor-to-make-announcement-in-jane-basharas-murder-case?clienttype=generic&smartdevicecgbypass

.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

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We still haven't seen any testimony in the prelim that links Bob to using the gun to threaten Joe to kill Jane. Did they append the charges to include felony firearm or some firearm related offense?


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I can't find the FreeP live blog of the hearing for day 5, does anyone have a link? Thanks.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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EllsBells wrote:I can't find the FreeP live blog of the hearing for day 5, does anyone have a link?  Thanks.
http://www.freep.com/livestream/article/20130913/NEWS02/130912015/Watch-live-9-m-Testimony-continues-Bob-Bashara-preliminary-exam



Last edited by Bricktop on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total

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Laker wrote:
Fifteen30 wrote:
chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...
makes me sick!! making money/ratings off of Jane's life. I wish there was a way this could be stopped. I wonder how Nancy Grace, et al would like it if her life (or her sibling or friend or parent) were put on display simply for viewers viewing entertainment. Seems like--in this case at least--these people are making their living off the blood of innocent victims!
Hate to say it Fifteen, but Nancy Grace has built a career exploiting her own situation with her fiance's murder.  She brings it up every chance possible.  I'm with you!
Laker & Fifteen, not to mention the channel and shows are all trashy as all get out. When I caught it, my thought was "Oh God, here it begins..." Mad  My prayer is that any of that horrid media circus goes to Jane's children and family, because I saw a post on a site where someone wrote about "wait til the movie comes out" *shudders*


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Bricktop wrote:
EllsBells wrote:I can't find the FreeP live blog of the hearing for day 5, does anyone have a link?  Thanks.
http://www.freep.com/livestream/article/20130913/NEWS02/130912015/Watch-live-9-m-Testimony-continues-Bob-Bashara-preliminary-exam
I couldn't find any streams! Thanks Bricktop for the update!! Ah... they are up and running. Not in session, but running....


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You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result. ~ Ghandi
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Live streaming now on WDIV.com


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Forget-me-not
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WildChild wrote:Live streaming now on WDIV.com
Hi WildChild! I was wondering why they hadn't been covering it live.  Here's a link peeps:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/watch-live-day-3-of-testimony-evidence-in-bashara-murder-case/-/1719418/21880576/-/agxtq8z/-/index.html


(it says "day-3" but it works-- it's day 5)


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Oh wow, even if not convicted of Jane's murder, Boob is serving the whole 20 year term on the attempted hit on Gentz since he's still plotting to have him and now Tibaudo killed.  Obviously the minute he's out of prison if ever, he's going after Tibaudo et al.  

What an idiot, he just can't learn.

Btw, here's the link to the FreeP Blog of Day 5, I always have trouble finding this blog so this might help if you do too.

http://live.freep.com/Event/Live_blog_Day_5_of_Bob_Bashara_preliminary_exam_in_Jane_Bashara_murder_case


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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Felony firearm added. Judge is the best!


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Jane's voice grows stronger everyday!
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JUDGE KING NAILED IT! Even called out BB's amateurish antics! Woo-hoo!



Last edited by EllsBells on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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Loved that Judge King called the Master out on all his antics


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EllsBells wrote:KING NAILED IT!  
Long live the King!!

Judge King is my hero!!! Called Monster out on everything!! Thank you, Judge. Thank you!!


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You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result. ~ Ghandi
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Somehow I get the idea Gina doesn't like the liveblogging.

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chewet wrote:
EllsBells wrote:KING NAILED IT!  
Long live the King!!

Judge King is my hero!!! Called Monster out on everything!! Thank you, Judge. Thank you!!
I also loved this judge. MB is so stupid, wonder if the judge is shaking in his boots that MB will be putting a hit out on him. smh

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Master Rick aka Midnight Rider

way way way more sleazy than any of the convicts that they put up on the stand today.


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kittygirl wrote:Master Rick aka Midnight Rider

way way way more sleazy than any of the convicts that they put up on the stand today.
Totally agree.


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