A home for those seeking to share and search for justice in the Jane Bashara murder!
AnalyzeThis wrote:I feel like today's testimony did a lot to underscore how very weak RG is, so can be seen as consistent with BB using JG, another weak person, even though it's in a different way.
meandmyshadow wrote:AnalyzeThis wrote:I feel like today's testimony did a lot to underscore how very weak RG is, so can be seen as consistent with BB using JG, another weak person, even though it's in a different way.
I entirely concur. Also, I hadn't heard the part about Obedient Slave IMing Rachel about starting a rumor about Jane! Wow!
meandmyshadow wrote: Shout out to the originators of Justice 4 Jane: DanStar, Stinamobena, and Migraine! Carrying on in the tradition of the Hinky Meter. JUSTICE FOR JANE!
EllsBells wrote:meandmyshadow wrote:AnalyzeThis wrote:I feel like today's testimony did a lot to underscore how very weak RG is, so can be seen as consistent with BB using JG, another weak person, even though it's in a different way.
I entirely concur. Also, I hadn't heard the part about Obedient Slave IMing Rachel about starting a rumor about Jane! Wow!
Quite a crew, attempting to malign the reputation of a murdered woman. Wonder if Obedient Slave (Therese Giffen?) will testify that Bob suggested that miserable deed.
It seemed like the judge backed off the intrusive questioning after lunch, maybe some colleagues got to her about it.
To date, for those following the case closely, it doesn't seem like we learned too many things we didn't know before --- nothing big at least. But we are only a week into it.
Lindsey & team doing a good job, while the defense seems ... well almost defenseless, with none of their cross-examines undermining the witnesses/testimony. Only surprising thing was the order of witnesses --- jumping from forensics to relationship stuff, back to forensics etc. Maybe it's to put the boring mundane stuff in between the juicy things to keep the jury's interest up. Oh well.
What does everyone think about how it is going?
CuriousPortlander wrote:That marital bed stuff and her driving Jane's car were new to me, too. As was the info about trying to create a false rumor about Jane having a boyfriend.
I think the prosecutors have tons on him. I was originally concerned that they couldn't place Bob in the garage, but now I remember that there was a witness that saw him help swap cars so Joe could drive her car away.
I think he's screwed (and not in the way he wants...lol).
smallal wrote:CuriousPortlander wrote:That marital bed stuff and her driving Jane's car were new to me, too. As was the info about trying to create a false rumor about Jane having a boyfriend.
I think the prosecutors have tons on him. I was originally concerned that they couldn't place Bob in the garage, but now I remember that there was a witness that saw him help swap cars so Joe could drive her car away.
I think he's screwed (and not in the way he wants...lol).
IMO. The person that witnessed the car ballet and JG behind the wheel was a fabricated leak to smoke Blob out. To see what he would do thinking that there was actually someone who witnessed his car being moved in order to get Jane's car out of the garage. Remember there was also some story about the street lights being inoperative in the area of the home. Perhaps that person really does exist, if so, they have been a well kept secret for quite a while. And with this case there aren't too many secrets left.
migraine wrote:The streetlights were out that night! I remember that for a fact! It was dark as hell
migraine wrote:The streetlights were out that night! I remember that for a fact! It was dark as hell
wwjd wrote:Omg! That must have been horrible for you! I'm so sorry!
Forgive me if I'm overstepping boundaries here but during what must surely be a horrendous time of reliving this nightmare for them, I think we should refrain from discussing Jane's family members at all, keeping them in our hearts and prayers, and allowing them the privacy to deal with this and heal out of the spotlight of anyone's comments or analysis. I am sure your question is well intentioned but let's not go there.catscratchfever wrote:Hi everybody, it's been a very long time since my last visit here... Before the slime slithered to prison.
Can anyone share an update on how the children view their father now? Are they ok? I'm not asking or want personal info. it's just that my heart still breaks for them and I have always been so very concerned for their wellbeing.
EllsBells wrote:On the link below are short videotapes of Webb's, McQueen's and Gillett's testimony. Didn't the judge ban any videotaping? I'm confused.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/bashara-murder-trial-testimony-concentrates-on-evidence-confrontation-between-bob-and-jane
AnalyzeThis wrote:There's something that really bothered me about yesterday's questioning: since this is a trial to determine whether or not BB is guilty as charged, I didn't see the point of all the Rachel-shaming. Even LL, on cross, did that bit about "you're still alive, aren't you?' and "You wouldn't change places with Jane Bashara, would you?" Both legitimate questions in terms of life (and I could understand the family wanting to literally scream those things at her), but what was the point relative to the determination of BB's guilt?
No, I don't at all condone that RG was involved with a married man. But BB advertised himself as "widowed," and would have found someone else if not RG (actually was looking for someone else even with her). Yes, she "should" have dumped him and never gone back, and yes, it seems like she was trying to paint herself in a more positive light while testifying. But no, I haven't walked in her shoes, so while it made me want to scream when I heard a lot of her testimony (really, you slept on the FLOOR while the jerk slept with another woman on the bed?, and really, he lied and lied and lied again and you still went back?), I also felt a lot of pity for her and wondered how in life she got to the place to accept that kind of behavior in exchange for some attention, and the hope of love and a future.
I believe in growing up and learning to make healthy, good decisions and have healthy boundaries regardless of our pasts. She obviously hasn't gotten to that place, at least according to my limited viewpoint. But back to the original question, isn't that all beside the point? Why did everyone seemingly feel the need to shame then re-shame Rachel? Was there a trial-critical point I'm missing?
Last edited by EllsBells on Fri 17 Oct 2014, 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total
EllsBells wrote:AnalyzeThis wrote:There's something that really bothered me about yesterday's questioning: since this is a trial to determine whether or not BB is guilty as charged, I didn't see the point of all the Rachel-shaming. Even LL, on cross, did that bit about "you're still alive, aren't you?' and "You wouldn't change places with Jane Bashara, would you?" Both legitimate questions in terms of life (and I could understand the family wanting to literally scream those things at her), but what was the point relative to the determination of BB's guilt?
No, I don't at all condone that RG was involved with a married man. But BB advertised himself as "widowed," and would have found someone else if not RG (actually was looking for someone else even with her). Yes, she "should" have dumped him and never gone back, and yes, it seems like she was trying to paint herself in a more positive light while testifying. But no, I haven't walked in her shoes, so while it made me want to scream when I heard a lot of her testimony (really, you slept on the FLOOR while the jerk slept with another woman on the bed?, and really, he lied and lied and lied again and you still went back?), I also felt a lot of pity for her and wondered how in life she got to the place to accept that kind of behavior in exchange for some attention, and the hope of love and a future.
I believe in growing up and learning to make healthy, good decisions and have healthy boundaries regardless of our pasts. She obviously hasn't gotten to that place, at least according to my limited viewpoint. But back to the original question, isn't that all beside the point? Why did everyone seemingly feel the need to shame then re-shame Rachel? Was there a trial-critical point I'm missing?
So well said, Analyze. I too didn't get the gratuitous piling on of Gillett as her testimony alone painted her as a thoroughly pathetic creature. Imo no trial-critical point was intended, just knee jerk reactions by two women (Evans & Lindsey) towards a very needy and clueless adulteress whose many bad decisions not to end her tawdry affair ultimately led to BB's motive for murdering Jane.
My guess is most people who knew, admired, or loved Jane have great disdain for Gillett, and that sentiment compelled the questioning by Evans and Lindsey.
Last edited by smallal on Fri 17 Oct 2014, 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
meandmyshadow wrote:EllsBells wrote:On the link below are short videotapes of Webb's, McQueen's and Gillett's testimony. Didn't the judge ban any videotaping? I'm confused.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/bashara-murder-trial-testimony-concentrates-on-evidence-confrontation-between-bob-and-jane
maybe she just banned "live" streaming of video?
AnalyzeThis wrote:There's something that really bothered me about yesterday's questioning: since this is a trial to determine whether or not BB is guilty as charged, I didn't see the point of all the Rachel-shaming. Even LL, on cross, did that bit about "you're still alive, aren't you?' and "You wouldn't change places with Jane Bashara, would you?" Both legitimate questions in terms of life (and I could understand the family wanting to literally scream those things at her), but what was the point relative to the determination of BB's guilt?
No, I don't at all condone that RG was involved with a married man. But BB advertised himself as "widowed," and would have found someone else if not RG (actually was looking for someone else even with her). Yes, she "should" have dumped him and never gone back, and yes, it seems like she was trying to paint herself in a more positive light while testifying. But no, I haven't walked in her shoes, so while it made me want to scream when I heard a lot of her testimony (really, you slept on the FLOOR while the jerk slept with another woman on the bed?, and really, he lied and lied and lied again and you still went back?), I also felt a lot of pity for her and wondered how in life she got to the place to accept that kind of behavior in exchange for some attention, and the hope of love and a future.
I believe in growing up and learning to make healthy, good decisions and have healthy boundaries regardless of our pasts. She obviously hasn't gotten to that place, at least according to my limited viewpoint. But back to the original question, isn't that all beside the point? Why did everyone seemingly feel the need to shame then re-shame Rachel? Was there a trial-critical point I'm missing?
GPPGRL wrote:AnalyzeThis wrote:There's something that really bothered me about yesterday's questioning: since this is a trial to determine whether or not BB is guilty as charged, I didn't see the point of all the Rachel-shaming. Even LL, on cross, did that bit about "you're still alive, aren't you?' and "You wouldn't change places with Jane Bashara, would you?" Both legitimate questions in terms of life (and I could understand the family wanting to literally scream those things at her), but what was the point relative to the determination of BB's guilt?
No, I don't at all condone that RG was involved with a married man. But BB advertised himself as "widowed," and would have found someone else if not RG (actually was looking for someone else even with her). Yes, she "should" have dumped him and never gone back, and yes, it seems like she was trying to paint herself in a more positive light while testifying. But no, I haven't walked in her shoes, so while it made me want to scream when I heard a lot of her testimony (really, you slept on the FLOOR while the jerk slept with another woman on the bed?, and really, he lied and lied and lied again and you still went back?), I also felt a lot of pity for her and wondered how in life she got to the place to accept that kind of behavior in exchange for some attention, and the hope of love and a future.
I believe in growing up and learning to make healthy, good decisions and have healthy boundaries regardless of our pasts. She obviously hasn't gotten to that place, at least according to my limited viewpoint. But back to the original question, isn't that all beside the point? Why did everyone seemingly feel the need to shame then re-shame Rachel? Was there a trial-critical point I'm missing?
Your ability to show compassion in the face of this is
admirable. I was thrown by the shaming behavior a bit as well but I wonder if Rachel's total passivity, lack of self knowledge, self-abnegation, etc. set off personal alarms in the judge and LL and they were actually rebuking little pieces of their past selves...Very little pieces perhaps...in a prior relationship? Lots of men out there and I think at one time or another most of us have been preyed on, but hopefully made the wise decision on what to do about it. So maybe this was more about them and their fears of dependency than it was about Rachel.
...and I, too, wondered what in Rachel's upbringing contributed to her character-or lack of it. Guess we'll have to wait for the "tell all" book (not that she's getting MY money....)
Last edited by smallal on Fri 17 Oct 2014, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
smallal wrote:GPPGRL wrote:AnalyzeThis wrote:There's something that really bothered me about yesterday's questioning: since this is a trial to determine whether or not BB is guilty as charged, I didn't see the point of all the Rachel-shaming. Even LL, on cross, did that bit about "you're still alive, aren't you?' and "You wouldn't change places with Jane Bashara, would you?" Both legitimate questions in terms of life (and I could understand the family wanting to literally scream those things at her), but what was the point relative to the determination of BB's guilt?
No, I don't at all condone that RG was involved with a married man. But BB advertised himself as "widowed," and would have found someone else if not RG (actually was looking for someone else even with her). Yes, she "should" have dumped him and never gone back, and yes, it seems like she was trying to paint herself in a more positive light while testifying. But no, I haven't walked in her shoes, so while it made me want to scream when I heard a lot of her testimony (really, you slept on the FLOOR while the jerk slept with another woman on the bed?, and really, he lied and lied and lied again and you still went back?), I also felt a lot of pity for her and wondered how in life she got to the place to accept that kind of behavior in exchange for some attention, and the hope of love and a future.
I believe in growing up and learning to make healthy, good decisions and have healthy boundaries regardless of our pasts. She obviously hasn't gotten to that place, at least according to my limited viewpoint. But back to the original question, isn't that all beside the point? Why did everyone seemingly feel the need to shame then re-shame Rachel? Was there a trial-critical point I'm missing?
Your ability to show compassion in the face of this is
admirable. I was thrown by the shaming behavior a bit as well but I wonder if Rachel's total passivity, lack of self knowledge, self-abnegation, etc. set off personal alarms in the judge and LL and they were actually rebuking little pieces of their past selves...Very little pieces perhaps...in a prior relationship? Lots of men out there and I think at one time or another most of us have been preyed on, but hopefully made the wise decision on what to do about it. So maybe this was more about them and their fears of dependency than it was about Rachel.
...and I, too, wondered what in Rachel's upbringing contributed to her character-or lack of it. Guess we'll have to wait for the "tell all" book (not that she's getting MY money....)
IMO she played the innocent victim role a little too heavy and it ticked off LL and the Judge. Any book she writes as this character(poor Rachel) will be in the fiction/fantasy shelves.
GPPGRL wrote:These people make me shudder to think they "walk among us" and my revulsion has nothing to do with BDSM but, rather, their lack of humanity. I was truly sickened by Rachel's invasion of Jane's bed and as much as she wishes to play victim, that bitch is evil.
EllsBells wrote:GPPGRL wrote:These people make me shudder to think they "walk among us" and my revulsion has nothing to do with BDSM but, rather, their lack of humanity. I was truly sickened by Rachel's invasion of Jane's bed and as much as she wishes to play victim, that bitch is evil.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
In this instance good women are doing something, they are speaking out against the wickedness of Gillett, here and in the courtroom. Imo, it was their revulsion of Gillett that caused Evans and Lindsey to lash out, perhaps despite their better professional judgment and more like a knee jerk reaction.
EllsBells wrote:meandmyshadow wrote:EllsBells wrote:On the link below are short videotapes of Webb's, McQueen's and Gillett's testimony. Didn't the judge ban any videotaping? I'm confused.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/bashara-murder-trial-testimony-concentrates-on-evidence-confrontation-between-bob-and-jane
maybe she just banned "live" streaming of video?
If so, what is the point of banning live streaming, but allowing it to be videotaped and then broadcasted a little later? I don't get it, but then given Judge Yonda's screwy ways maybe it makes some odd sense to her.
kittygirl wrote:Keep in mind too that Rachel was not always super forthcoming with information. She didn't tell prosecutors about Janet because she didn't think it was relevant. Why did the cops have to raid her house? Because she wasn't being totally forthcoming. That had to have frustrated LL and then to have her get on the stand. And based on some of the things LL said I wondered too if her testimony in the trial was not consistent with testimony she had given before. Rachel has been parading around like another victim in all this. And maybe she is victimized a little. But her victimization is nothing compared to what Jane must have endured in her life and death.
I do not think Rachel is not as innocent as she appears, she is not just a lovestruck woman, I think she can be manipulative. I have sympathy for her and compassion...I've done stupid things for what I thought was love, I've tolerated less than I deserved, etc. But on some level she had an awareness that Bob was not divorced, had never seen the papers, and yet she willingly participated (whatever her motivation) in the search for a third woman. She even had the balls to say something akin to having lost a lot during the police search of her residence. Cooperation wouldn't have necessitated a raid.
I personally cannot wait to hear testimony from Obedient Slave. I believe that during Bob's solicitation trial she was still assisting him, doing his bidding, if I remember LL correctly. And floating a rumor about Jane to Rachel...an innocent man wouldn't need rumors and a woman convinced of her man's innocence wouldn't need rumors...when someone is deceased and they have a beautiful legacy you can't physically harm them anymore so you try to take out their reputation by suggesting infidelity? That's reprehensible.
GPPGRL wrote:EllsBells wrote:meandmyshadow wrote:EllsBells wrote:On the link below are short videotapes of Webb's, McQueen's and Gillett's testimony. Didn't the judge ban any videotaping? I'm confused.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/bashara-murder-trial-testimony-concentrates-on-evidence-confrontation-between-bob-and-jane
maybe she just banned "live" streaming of video?
If so, what is the point of banning live streaming, but allowing it to be videotaped and then broadcasted a little later? I don't get it, but then given Judge Yonda's screwy ways maybe it makes some odd sense to her.
Thought the live streaming was banned because the screen the slides were shown on occasionally either reflected a juror or when cameras panned to the screen, picked up a glimpse of a juror. This way any inadvertent view of a juror could be eliminated before broadcast.
CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!
Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked. Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).
So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage. He places himself at the house. Is that enough?
I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial. I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony. At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice. In the trial, she said this:
George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN · Oct 16
MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”
I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.
@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights. Sorry about the situation it created for you!
GPPGRL wrote:CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!
Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked. Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).
So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage. He places himself at the house. Is that enough?
I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial. I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony. At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice. In the trial, she said this:
George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN · Oct 16
MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”
I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.
@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights. Sorry about the situation it created for you!
From the testimony this week my recollection is that one drop of blood in the garage contained DNA from 3 individuals: Jane, BOB, and the 3rd was inconclusive. (Am I recalling this correctly?)
GPPGRL wrote:CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!
Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked. Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).
So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage. He places himself at the house. Is that enough?
I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial. I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony. At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice. In the trial, she said this:
George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN · Oct 16
MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”
I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.
@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights. Sorry about the situation it created for you!
From the testimony this week my recollection is that one drop of blood in the garage contained DNA from 3 individuals: Jane, BOB, and the 3rd was inconclusive. (Am I recalling this correctly?)
Bricktop wrote:GPPGRL wrote:CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!
Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked. Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).
So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage. He places himself at the house. Is that enough?
I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial. I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony. At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice. In the trial, she said this:
George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN · Oct 16
MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”
I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.
@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights. Sorry about the situation it created for you!
From the testimony this week my recollection is that one drop of blood in the garage contained DNA from 3 individuals: Jane, BOB, and the 3rd was inconclusive. (Am I recalling this correctly?)
Yes, I heard that too. I would think that's enough to place him at the scene. Can they talk about the gun or not, does anyone know?
wwjd wrote:Imo.. placing Bob in the garage will probably be circumstantial, unless there actually was a witness to the car ballet. There's Gents' testimony of Bob forcing him at gunpoint, the hidden gun, along with Bob's denial of ownership, and Bob admitting he had stopped home.( Feel free to add anything I may have missed.) This along with witness testimony at the location of Bob's alibi, minutes from his home , I think we can rule out reasonable doubt.
After listening to the defense's opening on you tube, I was disturbed to hear that a Lois Valente will actually testify that Jane didn't care about Bob's extra marital sexcapades, and that he could do whatever he wanted to do.. really?? I hope when cross examined, they can discredit this fool!
smallal wrote:IMO First, who the heck is Lois Valenti ? Is she on the Greim letter of references ? Cross examination, "when Jane told you she no longer cared what Bob did, did she know he had brought his mistresses to their home, to their bed, to their shower ?" "and was Jane ok with Bob's mistress driving her car ?" If the answer is "no" then she does care what the Blob does. It's my belief that a witness cannot testify to what someone else may have been thinking so they cannot ask what the witness what a person(Jane) may have been thinking. However, they have enough witnesses to testify that Jane would never be ok with those things. Also, if she had said "I don't care what he does" in a flippant manner its pretty irrelevant. The statement out of context can be construed to mean many things but I seriously doubt that it meant she approved of his sexual escapades in her home. We'll find out eventually.
chewet wrote:Good morning, everyone!
Here's the Fox link:
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26828563/trial-continues-monday-for-bob-bashara
wwjd wrote:I wish there was a "like" button to push!
Last edited by chewet on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Similar topics
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
|
|