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TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE!

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251 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:00 am

This trial could last for months with such short days of testimony. 4-5 hour days? 4 days a week? I wanna be a judge!

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252 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:18 am

Amy Lange posted that the judge says there's no court tomorrow.

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253 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:27 am

So tired of hearing how BB was such a leader in the rotary!! Blah Blah! I have said before SO WAS JOHN WAYNE GACY!


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254 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:32 am

About Gacy-

"John Wayne Gacy, Jr. (March 17, 1942 – May 10, 1994), also known as the Killer Clown, was an American serial killer and rapist who was convicted of the sexual assault and murder of a minimum of 33 teenage boys and young men in a series of killings committed between 1972 and 1978 in Chicago, Illinois."

"In Waterloo (Iowa), Gacy joined the local chapter of the Jaycees, regularly offering extensive hours to the organization in addition to the twelve- and fourteen-hour days he worked as a manager of three KFC restaurants. Although considered ambitious and somewhat of a braggart by his colleagues in the Jaycees, he was highly regarded as a tireless worker on several fund-raising projects. In 1967, he was named "outstanding vice-president" of the Waterloo Jaycees.[30] At Jaycee meetings, Gacy would often provide free fried chicken to his colleagues and insisted upon being given the nickname "Colonel" by his colleagues.[31] The same year, Gacy served on the Board of Directors for the Waterloo Jaycees.""

"However, there was a seedier side of Jaycee life in Waterloo, one that involved wife swapping,[26] prostitution, pornography and drugs. Gacy was deeply involved in many of these activities and regularly cheated on his wife.[33] He is also known to have opened a "club" in his basement, where he allowed employees to drink alcohol and play pool. Although he employed teenagers of both sexes at his restaurants, he socialized only with his male employees. Many were given alcohol before Gacy made sexual advances toward them, which he would dismiss as a joke if the teenager rebuffed his advances.[34]"

Sounds FAMILIAR!

Source:  Gacy Wikipedia


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255 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:49 am

wwjd wrote:This trial could last for months with such short days of testimony. 4-5 hour days? 4 days a week? I wanna be a judge!

I agree, court scheduled to start at 9:30 actually starts at 10:10, breaks that are supposed to be 15 minutes going to 45, what a colossal waste of manhours and taxpayer $.  So with court cancelled for Tuesday (someone not available) will it be held on Friday as a make-up day?  Bet not.

All this mention of BB raising money for charities, too bad they can't enter testimony of his siphoning off cash from them such as HS Reunion Committee, Little League snack bar, stealing supplies from GP South HS, and collections at church etc.  Sure BB always wanted to be around charity cash which is often loosely accounted for, but not for altruistic reasons.  

Not getting the point of testimony by Gabel, what difference does it make if Blob tried to raise money for his friend's BDSM club and that he was better groomed after Jane's murder than before?   Very tangential, imo.


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256 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:05 am

"thank God I have Jane--back at work" UGH trying to make it sound like he had no motive! BUT he did! Jane wanted a divorce! So he was going to lose his meal ticket! So nice try, defense!


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257 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:08 am

All this about BOB NOT WANTING TO DIVORCE JANE! But Blob couldn't control what JANE wanted, though could he? IMO the defense is just making the motive more clear! What does everyone else think?


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258 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:22 am

Is the prosecution trying to make the point that Blob may have revealed nformation to Wilson about Jane's injuries BEFORE he (Bob) may have actually had confirmation from the authorities about her injuries/cause of death? Am I understanding this correctly?


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259 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:43 am

migraine wrote:Is the prosecution trying to make the point that Blob may have revealed nformation to Wilson about Jane's injuries BEFORE he (Bob) may have actually had confirmation from the authorities about her injuries/cause of death?  Am I understanding this correctly?

Not sure about that, as there's no testimony yet about what the police told Bob when they notified him that Jane was found. If Bob asked, "How did she die?" it's possible they mentioned that her neck looked very damaged, possibly she was strangled.

Was surprised prosecutor didn't delve more into the testimony by Wilson that BB was afraid/scared of Jane. That comment needs to be put in context, imo.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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260 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:57 am

Seems like he was only on the stand to establish:

1. He was Bob's "alibi" for when he went out of town for Rachel's daughters wedding

2. Bob told him of "neck trauma" that I don't remember being part of any media reports early on.

3. He and Bob did shady things like do drugs on golf night.


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261 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 12:30 pm

From Amy Lange @ Fox 2:

12:25
Amy Lange: Now attorneys talking to the judge.
Lisa Lindsey says she has a long witness coming up.

Shocked

Fireworks this afternoon?

Go Team Lindsey!!


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262 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 12:33 pm

chewet wrote:From Amy Lange @ Fox 2:

12:25
Amy Lange: Now attorneys talking to the judge.
Lisa Lindsey says she has a long witness coming up.

Shocked

Fireworks this afternoon?

Go Team Lindsey!!

cheers cheers cheers LIKE!!!!

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263 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 12:44 pm

Looks like prosecutors are going to use the missing ring as another nail in Bob's coffin.  Remember that when Jane (who reportedly removed her rings at night & placed on dresser) woke up Saturday before her death she discovered her very valuable 20K engagement ring was missing.  She and friends searched everywhere, presumably the maid searched, but couldn't find it.  Weeks later it was still missing (including after two police searches of the house), but then BB magically finds it on the floor under/near a planter.

The implication is that BB as he was planning her faux car jacking didn't want the ring swiped by someone finding the car, wanted her to report it missing to friends & co-workers on Monday a day before she was murdered, then concocted a story about how it was misplaced in the house the whole time.  Voila, cash-strapped BB has the ring to convert to money!  

Goes to his advance planning, disregard for causing extreme distress in Jane, and ham-handed way of executing this murder/cover-up. My guess is he thought he was being ohhh so clever, really just an idiot.

Evil or Very Mad



Last edited by EllsBells on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total


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264 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 1:42 pm

Suspense on who the next witness is is killing me!


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265 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 3:28 pm

Love how the prosecution can demolish BB with his own tv interviews and thus have him testify for them without the defense being able to cross-examine and to try to rehabilitate. Wonder if attention-seeking BB now regrets the most likely advice of his attorneys to keep his damn mouth shut and not give any media interviews.  Idiocy = justice for Jane.

Anybody who has ever gotten a cell phone bill knows that there are detailed records of numbers called, dates, length --- so how was BB so clueless to not realize that making massive calls ("blowing up the phone") to Gentz and Gillett would not be easily found by investigators?  And that switching to another person's phone the day after Jane's murder showed a guilty need to cover-up?   It's amazing this idiot every got pass the eighth grade.  Idiocy = justice for Jane.

Prediction: Blob will not take his attorneys' advice and instead will insist on taking the stand, where upon Lindsey will tear him to shreds. Future idiocy = justice for Jane.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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266 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 3:40 pm

EllsBells wrote:Love how the prosecution can demolish BB with his own tv interviews and thus have him testify for them without the defense being able to cross-examine and to try to rehabilitate. Wonder if attention-seeking BB now regrets the most likely advice of his attorneys to keep his damn mouth shut and not give any media interviews.  Idiocy = justice for Jane.

Anybody who has ever gotten a cell phone bill knows that there are detailed records of numbers called, dates, length --- so how was BB so clueless to not realize that making massive calls ("blowing up the phone") to Gentz and Gillett would not be easily found by investigators?  And that switching to another person's phone the day after Jane's murder showed a guilty need to cover-up?   It's amazing this idiot every got pass the eighth grade.  Idiocy = justice for Jane.

Prediction: Blob will not take his attorneys' advice and instead will insist on taking the stand, where upon Lindsey will tear him to shreds.  Future idiocy = justice for Jane.

I was thinking the same thing. Then it hit me...he never, ever thought "Big Bob" would be a suspect. He thought he'd pin it on the "n-words," and he'd remain beyond suspicion. Idiot.

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267 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 3:41 pm

I totally agree, Ells! I honestly believe that Bob didn't think that his word would be questioned so his cell phone records would never be evaluated. He thought they would buy his story of a carjacking and let it go as just another tragic statistic in the dangerous lawless city of Detroit. Once he realized that wasn't the case he freaked and switched to momma's phone- again thinking they would NEVER look at his mom's phone calls!jocolor

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268 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:09 pm

EllsBells wrote:Looks like prosecutors are going to use the missing ring as another nail in Bob's coffin.  Remember that when Jane (who reportedly removed her rings at night & placed on dresser) woke up Saturday before her death she discovered her very valuable 20K engagement ring was missing.  She and friends searched everywhere, presumably maid searched, but couldn't find it.  Weeks later it was still missing (including after two police searches of the house), but then BB magically finds it on the floor under/near a planter.

The implication is that BB as he was planning her faux car jacking didn't want the ring swiped by someone finding the car, wanted her to report it missing to friends & co-workers on Monday a day before she was murdered, then concocted a story about how it was misplaced in the house the whole time.  Voila, cash-strapped BB has the ring to convert to money!  

Goes to his advance planning, disregard for causing exlotreme distress in Jane, and ham-handed way of executing this murder/cover-up. My guess is he thought he was being ohhh so clever, really just an idiot.

Evil or Very Mad

I'm confused about the rings.....I believe there were three instances when her diamond and rings went missing, not just one:  In the first case, her diamond "fell" out of its setting; she looked all over for it and didn't find it. The diamond was replaced--I think--by blob. In the second case, the entire ring--diamond along with its setting--was "lost." She was sick over it--looked and looked and didn't find it. It was replaced with an entirely  different setting and a new diamond. (I have first-hand knowledge from Jane about these two instances) In the third istance, I think this is the ring he found saying it was misplaced.   Like you, I think cash-strapped blob had the first two instances converted to money, and he got caught in the third instance.



Last edited by Fifteen30 on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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269 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:16 pm

CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!

Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked.  Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).

So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage.  He places himself at the house.  Is that enough?

I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial.  I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony.  At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice.  In the trial, she said this:

George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN  ·  Oct 16

MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”



I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.

@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights.  Sorry about the situation it created for you!


QUESTION: Is Obedient Slave the one from Oregon...the one they flew in to testify at the hearing? Or is this the one who joined blob and RG in the marital bed?

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270 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:22 pm

What difference does it make that Gentz will not testify in person as to which of his text messages are admissible or not?  Text messages between two regular people are not protected as confidential compared to attorney-client et al, were sought based on a subpoena, and should stand on their own face value (don't need to be explained).  Are they really going to go over every one and say this one is in, this one is out, etc with the judge ruling on each one?  Sounds weird.  If there is some legal basis to prohibit Gentz's texts, wouldn't it be an all or none decision?

Noticeably missing today were the persistent questioning of witnesses by Judge Evans. Phew.

Agree, Shadow and Analyze, his hubris got in the way of realizing how easy it would be to see beyond the faux carjacking,  just like now his hubris is getting in the way of realizing how easy it will be for this jury to see his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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271 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:34 pm

Fifteen30 wrote:
EllsBells wrote:Looks like prosecutors are going to use the missing ring as another nail in Bob's coffin.  Remember that when Jane (who reportedly removed her rings at night & placed on dresser) woke up Saturday before her death she discovered her very valuable 20K engagement ring was missing.  She and friends searched everywhere, presumably maid searched, but couldn't find it.  Weeks later it was still missing (including after two police searches of the house), but then BB magically finds it on the floor under/near a planter.

The implication is that BB as he was planning her faux car jacking didn't want the ring swiped by someone finding the car, wanted her to report it missing to friends & co-workers on Monday a day before she was murdered, then concocted a story about how it was misplaced in the house the whole time.  Voila, cash-strapped BB has the ring to convert to money!  

Goes to his advance planning, disregard for causing exlotreme distress in Jane, and ham-handed way of executing this murder/cover-up. My guess is he thought he was being ohhh so clever, really just an idiot.

Evil or Very Mad

I'm confused about the rings.....I believe there were three instances when her diamond and rings went missing, not just one:  In the first case, her diamond "fell" out of its setting; she looked all over for it and didn't find it. The diamond was replaced--I think--by blob. In the second case, the entire ring--diamond along with its setting--was "lost." She was sick over it--looked and looked and didn't find it. It was replaced with an entirely  different setting and a new diamond. (I have first-hand knowledge from Jane about these two instances) In the third istance, I think this is the ring he found saying it was misplaced.   Like you, I think cash-strapped blob had the first two instances converted to money, and he got caught in the third instance.

In prior discussion on this site, many posters thought the first two instances were insurance fraud by Bob, where he stole Jane's diamonds/rings and had them replaced by insurance company. On the third missing instance just before Jane's murder, I don't think Blob was "caught" as it wasn't submitted for insurance reimbursement, just "missing" for awhile. Don't remember hearing if he sold that ring in the months after her death or gave it to Jessica.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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272 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:41 pm

Fifteen30 wrote:
CuriousPortlander wrote:Some great discussions going on here!

Regarding the car ballet witness; thanks for your comments about that possibly being faked.  Makes sense when I read your thoughts (and it apparently worked).

So now I'm back to being a bit concerned about how they are going to place him in the garage.  He places himself at the house.  Is that enough?

I went back through my detailed notes from the hearing that held him over for trial.  I think I found one discrepancy about Rachel's testimony.  At the hearing, she said the BDSM lifestyle was HER choice.  In the trial, she said this:

George Hunter @GeorgeHunter_DN  ·  Oct 16

MM: “You didn’t like that BDSM stuff?” Not really. McCarthy: “The truth of the matter is, you’d do anything for him? Right?”



I also looked to see if Obedient Slave testified at the hearing, but I don't think she did.

@Migraine - thanks for your facts about the lights.  Sorry about the situation it created for you!


QUESTION:  Is Obedient Slave the one from Oregon...the one they flew in to testify at the hearing?  Or is this the one who joined blob and RG in the marital bed?
Obedient Slave is from Chicago.

Janet from Oregon DID NOT join blob and RG in the marital bed. She never was in Michigan except for this case (investigative subpoena and testifying in the preliminary examination.) Bob had many slaves from what I understand, rachel's blog is full of descriptions of that kind of thing.


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273 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 4:59 pm

Can anyone clarify what the heck was going on at court re that last second witness who apparently showed up?? Frances Natale??


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274 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 5:02 pm

EllsBells wrote:
Fifteen30 wrote:
EllsBells wrote:Looks like prosecutors are going to use the missing ring as another nail in Bob's coffin.  Remember that when Jane (who reportedly removed her rings at night & placed on dresser) woke up Saturday before her death she discovered her very valuable 20K engagement ring was missing.  She and friends searched everywhere, presumably maid searched, but couldn't find it.  Weeks later it was still missing (including after two police searches of the house), but then BB magically finds it on the floor under/near a planter.


The implication is that BB as he was planning her faux car jacking didn't want the ring swiped by someone finding the car, wanted her to report it missing to friends & co-workers on Monday a day before she was murdered, then concocted a story about how it was misplaced in the house the whole time.  Voila, cash-strapped BB has the ring to convert to money!  

Goes to his advance planning, disregard for causing exlotreme distress in Jane, and ham-handed way of executing this murder/cover-up. My guess is he thought he was being ohhh so clever, really just an idiot.

Evil or Very Mad

I'm confused about the rings.....I believe there were three instances when her diamond and rings went missing, not just one:  In the first case, her diamond "fell" out of its setting; she looked all over for it and didn't find it. The diamond was replaced--I think--by blob. In the second case, the entire ring--diamond along with its setting--was "lost." She was sick over it--looked and looked and didn't find it. It was replaced with an entirely  different setting and a new diamond. (I have first-hand knowledge from Jane about these two instances) In the third istance, I think this is the ring he found saying it was misplaced.   Like you, I think cash-strapped blob had the first two instances converted to money, and he got caught in the third instance.

In  prior discussion on this site, many posters thought the first two instances were insurance fraud by Bob, where he stole Jane's diamonds/rings and had them replaced by insurance company.  On the third missing instance just before Jane's murder,  I don't think Blob was "caught" as it wasn't submitted for insurance reimbursement, just "missing" for awhile.  Don't remember hearing if he sold that ring in the months after her death or gave it to Jessica.
 

So has anyone had the ring appraised? Could Bob have replaced the diamond with a cz?

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275 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 5:29 pm

chewet wrote:Can anyone clarify what the heck was going on at court re that last second witness who apparently showed up?? Frances Natale??


This is all I could find!

FRANCES NATALE

Status: Booked
State: MI
Arrest Date: 2014-10-17 3:20 pm
Booking Facility: Wayne County
Major Population Center(s): Detroit
Height:
Weight:
Gender:
Date of Birth: 1/27/1960

Age: 54 years old
Age at Booking: 54
Age now: 54


Booking #  2014025307   Name    NATALE, FRANCES              
Booking Date  10/17/2014 3:20:00 PM   Docket # 13-8320 Fac. 1
DOB 1/27/1960  Bond N Bond Type REM   Bond Amt. 0.00
Charge  MATERIAL WITNESS

source

also found this:
Frances Anna Natale
Location: Brighton, Michigan 48114

Age: 54 years old

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276 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 5:45 pm

meandmyshadow wrote:
chewet wrote:Can anyone clarify what the heck was going on at court re that last second witness who apparently showed up?? Frances Natale??


This is all I could find!

FRANCES NATALE

Status: Booked
State: MI
Arrest Date: 2014-10-17 3:20 pm
Booking Facility: Wayne County
Major Population Center(s): Detroit
Height:
Weight:
Gender:
Date of Birth: 1/27/1960

Age: 54 years old
Age at Booking: 54
Age now: 54


Booking #  2014025307   Name    NATALE, FRANCES              
Booking Date  10/17/2014 3:20:00 PM   Docket # 13-8320 Fac. 1
DOB 1/27/1960  Bond N Bond Type REM   Bond Amt. 0.00
Charge  MATERIAL WITNESS

source

also found this:
Frances Anna Natale
Location: Brighton, Michigan 48114

Age: 54 years old

Apparently this is a material witness who is somehow connected to Gentz that the prosecutors have been trying to locate since August.  Her presence was confusing to bloggers in court, in the end judge said she would testify next week.  Sounds like she was arrested for refusing to testify as a material witness and will wear a monitoring device if makes bail.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeHunter_DN No

Correction: Hank Winchester reported Ms. Natale is a friend of Gentz. Others reported she's been living out of her car.



Last edited by EllsBells on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

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277 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 5:47 pm

Thank you, Ells & Shadow!! Am trying to catch up and not at a spot to post and/or look but caught the "commotion" via twitter... Sounds like she was the homeless person they had to arrest to ensure testimony?


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278 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 7:17 pm

chewet wrote:Thank you, Ells & Shadow!! Am trying to catch up and not at a spot to post and/or look but caught the "commotion" via twitter... Sounds like she was the homeless person they had to arrest to ensure testimony?

I am trying to recall and search for the information on JG's movements the night of the murder. He was seen(on camera) at a McDonalds, we speculated he took a bus and walked home. But I do vaguely recall something like he called a friend, and she picked him up. Is Frances this woman ? If she testifies that JG told her the same story he told his friends who convinced him to turn himself in then there is another corroboration of JG's story. Does anyone recall if that was discussed during the Hinky Meter days or on this blog ?

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279 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 8:20 pm

smallal wrote:
chewet wrote:Thank you, Ells & Shadow!! Am trying to catch up and not at a spot to post and/or look but caught the "commotion" via twitter... Sounds like she was the homeless person they had to arrest to ensure testimony?

I am trying to recall and search for the information on JG's movements the night of the murder. He was seen(on camera) at a McDonalds, we speculated he took a bus and walked home. But I do vaguely recall something like he called a friend, and she picked him up. Is Frances this woman ? If she testifies that JG told her the same story he told his friends who convinced him to turn himself in then there is another corroboration of JG's story. Does anyone recall if that was discussed during the Hinky Meter days or on this blog ?

Good memory, Smallal, now I vaguely recall something about a woman picking up Gentz that night, not sure from which blog.

Wonder why she is so reluctant to testify, as JG has already confessed, just a question of whether the jury will be convinced he acted on his own or under BB's direction.  Intimidation, misplaced loyalty or just wanting to stay out of the whole thing. It's too bad she has to be locked up until her testimony, doubt that will make her feel more kindly toward the process.


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Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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280 Frances Natale on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:32 pm

Fox 2 reported that Frances Natale is Joe Gentz's girlfriend.


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281 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:37 pm

EllsBells wrote:
Good memory, Smallal, now I vaguely recall something about a woman picking up Gentz that night, not sure from which blog.

Wonder why she is so reluctant to testify, as JG has already confessed, just a question of whether the jury will be convinced he acted on his own or under BB's direction.  Intimidation, misplaced loyalty or just wanting to stay out of the whole thing. It's too bad she has to be locked up until her testimony, doubt that will make her feel more kindly toward the process.

Here's a link to another forum where a poster who also posts here gave some great summaries of the prelim, and mentions JG getting picked up at McDonalds, but by Gregory Barraco (referred to as "witness" in the post).

http://realitychatter.forumotions.net/t3804p950-jane-bashara-deceased-1-24-12

post describing Gregory Barraco's testimony (hope this is OK to paste here...it's just part of the page):

hung out with Joe and Steve Virgona

Between Nov. and Christmas 2011; Joe asked if this witness would help him hurt someone in Grosse Point; Joe said he was being paid $5K; wanted to hit her with a big car

He mentioned it was Bob that wanted to hurt this person

witness said he didn't want to hear this; wanted nothing to do with it

Joe asked him three times on separate occasions; same response each time; no
never heard Bob's last name

End of Jan. 2012, witness was asked to pick up Joe from McDonalds (around 10:30 p.m.) (Joe called 5-6 times)

Joe sounded nervous; was in a hurry to be picked up

witness had been to McDonalds earlier with a friend and they had left witness' car there
went back to McDonalds

Joe was pacing and smoking nervously; he was upset; talking on phone; he said on phone that he was going away for about 20 years; Joe had a fresh scratch on his face

Friend gave Joe the ride he needed; witness left

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282 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:46 pm

jan_53 wrote:Fox 2 reported that Frances Natale is Joe Gentz's girlfriend.

Here's a video that talks a little more about her and even shows her in court today.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/witnesses-bob-bashara-liked-to-spank-women-looked-like-movie-star-after-wifes-murder

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283 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 10:58 pm

Awesome link, Analyze!

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284 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Mon 20 Oct 2014, 11:29 pm

AnalyzeThis wrote:
EllsBells wrote:
Good memory, Smallal, now I vaguely recall something about a woman picking up Gentz that night, not sure from which blog.

Wonder why she is so reluctant to testify, as JG has already confessed, just a question of whether the jury will be convinced he acted on his own or under BB's direction.  Intimidation, misplaced loyalty or just wanting to stay out of the whole thing. It's too bad she has to be locked up until her testimony, doubt that will make her feel more kindly toward the process.

Here's a link to another forum where a poster who also posts here gave some great summaries of the prelim, and mentions JG getting picked up at McDonalds, but by Gregory Barraco (referred to as "witness" in the post).

http://realitychatter.forumotions.net/t3804p950-jane-bashara-deceased-1-24-12

post describing Gregory Barraco's testimony (hope this is OK to paste here...it's just part of the page):

hung out with Joe and Steve Virgona

Between Nov. and Christmas 2011; Joe asked if this witness would help him hurt someone in Grosse Point; Joe said he was being paid $5K; wanted to hit her with a big car

He mentioned it was Bob that wanted to hurt this person

witness said he didn't want to hear this; wanted nothing to do with it

Joe asked him three times on separate occasions; same response each time; no
never heard Bob's last name

End of Jan. 2012, witness was asked to pick up Joe from McDonalds (around 10:30 p.m.) (Joe called 5-6 times)

Joe sounded nervous; was in a hurry to be picked up

witness had been to McDonalds earlier with a friend and they had left witness' car there
went back to McDonalds

Joe was pacing and smoking nervously; he was upset; talking on phone; he said on phone that he was going away for about 20 years; Joe had a fresh scratch on his face

Friend gave Joe the ride he needed; witness left

Frances and Gregory went to McDonalds to pick Joe up in her van. Joe had called Gregory several times and Frances and Gregory were hanging out. They went to pick up Joe and Gregory's car which was left parked there from an earlier visit. Knew I heard that name and story somewhere.

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285 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 12:08 am

Smallal--how did you know the "witness" with Gregory was Frances?

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286 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 1:17 am


@smallal
:

It's absolutely OK to post my notes here.  I've actually already posted them here, too, on the previous thread.  I'm happy to share!

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287 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 7:03 am

CuriousPortlander wrote:
Bashara's former handyman won't testify in court

Gina Damron, Detroit Free Press 5:29 p.m. EDT October 10, 2014


Gentz's decision means prosecutors could withdraw the plea and reinstate the charge of first-degree murder.

...Earlier this week, while reading the names of defense witnesses to prospective jurors in Bashara's trial, the defense listed Gentz.

Now, the defense plans to file a motion asking the court for a finding that Gentz is not available to testify, said Michael McCarthy, one of the attorneys representing Bashara.

"If that finding is made, then under the rules of evidence certain things that he said in the past can be admitted into evidence," McCarthy said.

At a hearing following Gentz's hearing, Evans told attorneys that, during opening statements in Bashara's trial on Tuesday, they can't say Gentz will testify.


Source:  http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2014/10/10/gentz-court-hearing/17036329/

Now that the defense has said it does not intend to ask the court to find Gentz as an unavailable witness, what are the rules of evidence?  Can his prior statements including confession be entered as  testimony? Can the prosecution now put him on their witness list and petition the court to find him unavailable?


____________________________________________________
Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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288 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 10:51 am

meandmyshadow wrote:Smallal--how did you know the "witness" with Gregory was Frances?

I found an archive of his testimony in the preliminary hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_KSXS9aCoc

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289 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 11:21 am

smallal wrote:
meandmyshadow wrote:Smallal--how did you know the "witness" with Gregory was Frances?

I found an archive of his testimony in the preliminary hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_KSXS9aCoc

Ah, yes! Thank you! It is at the 24:35 mark that she comes up first. THank you so much, Smallal! This is a great link, too!

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290 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 11:48 am

Couple of things: if there were several instances of Jane's rings/diamonds missing, (EllsBells) does Rachel's "promise ring" look at all familiar?
And some thoughts about Frances: if she's living out of her van and has been for some time, she's pretty marginalized socially and most likely either has mental health or substance abuse issues I would think.



Last edited by GPPGRL on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Auto correct )

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291 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Tue 21 Oct 2014, 12:37 pm

GPPGRL wrote:Couple of things: if there were several instances of Jane's rings/diamonds missing, (EllsBells) does Rachel's "promise ring" look at all familiar?
And some thoughts about Frances: if she's living out of her van and has been for some time, she's pretty marginalized socially and most likely either has mental health or substance abuse issues I would think.

Iirc, Rachel said in earlier testimony that the ring was inherited from Bob's great aunt.  Somewhere I got the impression it was a small gem stone (diamond?) in an antique style setting.

It was suggested in one of yesterday's blogs (not sure which one) that Frances was living in her van to avoid being subpoenaed as she does not wants to testify.  It was reported that she was using her daughter's IDs to avoid being found.  She has  lived recently in Bloomfield Hills, but whether she still lives there is not clear.

Perhaps while she is in jail the prosecution can talk with her and allay her concerns about testifying.  Really don't see how she can hurt Gentz as her info can only help establish that he was manipulated by BB to murder Jane.  

Wondering also if she is worried about retaliation from BB and has been threatened.  If so, her testimony could go to witness tampering or obstruction.

.


____________________________________________________
Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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293 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 9:43 am

Great comment by George Hunter  Smile  Smile  Smile

"Today's expected witness: Janet Leehman, the woman from Oregon.
Bob tried to woo her into a threesome with Rachel by mailing her his dirty t-shirt, a leather collar, and 2 Olive Garden gift certificates."

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294 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 9:56 am

AnalyzeThis wrote:Great comment by George Hunter  Smile  Smile  Smile

"Today's expected witness: Janet Leehman, the woman from Oregon.
Bob tried to woo her into a threesome with Rachel by mailing her his dirty t-shirt, a leather collar, and 2 Olive Garden gift certificates."

and then left dirty underwear in her dresser!  eeeww ..

Check out the photo of BigBlob as junior class prez on Amy Lange's blog below.  Wonder he was stealing from the class projects back then too.  Razz

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26850933/second-potential-mistress-expected-to-testify-in-bashara-murder-trial-wednesday


____________________________________________________
Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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295 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:16 am

Welp, first order of the day and it's announced no court on Friday now. Geez. Smh.

(From the freep blog)


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You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result. ~ Ghandi
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296 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:23 am

chewet wrote:Welp, first order of the day and it's announced no court on Friday now. Geez. Smh.

(From the freep blog)

and court starting 40 minutes late ... the judge sure runs a loose ship. Always starts at least 20 minutes late, breaks doubled the announced time, no make-up days, but Voila! --- court ends either promptly on time or early. Such a disrespect for jurors, attorneys, reporters, and spectators' time. Geez ....


____________________________________________________
Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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297 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:28 am

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26850933/second-potential-mistress-expected-to-testify-in-bashara-murder-trial-wednesday

"Investigator thought his affect was out of character given that earlier that evening he had been to the morgue to identify the body of his deceased wife. Midway through the interview he made a comment about his rotary pin on his shirt or blazer and pointed at is and said, "How could I have killed my wife if I was president of the Rotary Club?""

BB is even more stupid than I thought.  Can you imagine him thinking this was a good thing to ask?

Edited to add that this shows what happens when a stupid person is a narcissist.



Last edited by AnalyzeThis on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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298 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:29 am

GeorgeHunterTwitter

"how could I have killed my wife if I was president of the Rotary Club?"  Laughing my A$$ off as the kids would say!



Last edited by meandmyshadow on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrected quote)

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299 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:34 am

meandmyshadow wrote:GeorgeHunterTwitter

"how could I have killed my wife if I was president of the Rotary?"  Laughing my A$$ off as the kids would say!

Analyze and Shadow, that comment is too funny. Wonder if any in the courtroom did laugh out loud! Incredible thing is he probably did then and still believes that was his get out of jail free card! If it wouldn't take all my free time, I'd keep a running tally of all the idiotic things BB did in this plot. Candidate for the Stupidest Criminal Of All Time.


____________________________________________________
Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness.

W.H. Auden
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300 Re: TRIAL! JUSTICE FOR JANE! on Wed 22 Oct 2014, 10:38 am

EllsBells wrote:
meandmyshadow wrote:GeorgeHunterTwitter

"how could I have killed my wife if I was president of the Rotary?"  Laughing my A$$ off as the kids would say!

Analyze and Shadow, that comment is too funny.   Wonder if any in the courtroom did laugh out loud!   Incredible thing is he probably did then and still believes that was his get out of jail free card!  If it wouldn't take all my free time, I'd keep a running tally of all the idiotic things BB did in this plot. Candidate for the Stupidest Criminal Of All Time.

You can bet that Lisa Lindsay is tallying all of that for you! Razz What an idiot. And the judge? It kills me that she gets so incredibly angry at unimportant things and then runs her courtroom the way she does. I honestly believe that's why she's not allowing cameras in the courtroom.

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