Preliminary Hearing in the Bob Bashara Murder Trial

kittygirl wrote:Jessica is an extraordinary young woman.  So strong and composed.  I can't imagine being able to do what she was able to do.  

smallal wrote:Some time ago there was supposedly evidence that Joe Gentz took a bus home from McDonalds. Now I heard testimony that he was picked up by a female friend who was dropping off Gregory Borraco to retrieve his car. I cannot locate the woman's name. However, shouldn't the woman who picked him up and drove him home(?) be on the witness list ? And what is the distance from the McDonalds to where the car was dumped ?

justanopinion wrote:I have been trying to follow when I can throughout the day... how is it looking!

justanopinion wrote:Some of the things that are being implied in this prelim... are quite telling IMO. Whatever the little joke was between Blob and his lawyer just before Jessica took the stand. The determination in Jessica's voice. Rachel's breakdowns on the stand (she sounds very hurt)(and a little naive) the admissions about the gun...

starting to make JG sound a little more credible if that is even possible given his demeanour and intellect. Wondering why the Crown is hammering away that no one heard of JG before this (did Rachel know him? did Jessica know him? yet he supposedly had the utilities in JG's apt in BB's name)

When this all goes to trial it will be even more salacious than the Jodi Arias trial I am thinking. JMOO

kittygirl wrote:

justanopinion wrote:Some of the things that are being implied in this prelim... are quite telling IMO. Whatever the little joke was between Blob and his lawyer just before Jessica took the stand. The determination in Jessica's voice. Rachel's breakdowns on the stand (she sounds very hurt)(and a little naive) the admissions about the gun...

starting to make JG sound a little more credible if that is even possible given his demeanour and intellect. Wondering why the Crown is hammering away that no one heard of JG before this (did Rachel know him? did Jessica know him? yet he supposedly had the utilities in JG's apt in BB's name)

When this all goes to trial it will be even more salacious than the Jodi Arias trial I am thinking. JMOO

I think they keep talking about knowing Gentz because if you were really really scared and threatened by someone and then your wife came up missing wouldn't that be the first thing you would tell police?  The timing of when Bob shared his suspicions is suspect...it's like his carjacking story didn't get believed so he moved on to gentz...then the private investigator...

TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...

Justice4Jane wrote:

TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...

It's truly despicable of those people.  I'm apologize but I think it's a load of BS that the mother had no idea a gun was in that pouch.  Please!

Bricktop wrote:

Justice4Jane wrote:

TheEndIsNear wrote:Anyone remember back in the summer of 2012 when there were news reports about Jane's mother being locked out of the Jane's house? It was also reported that items were being removed from the house and that bb's family would not return Jane's ashes to the church?

I was looking back at the dates, and all of that came after bb's family had found the gun. So, that's how they treated Jane's mother AFTER they found such damning evidence??

Trying to wrap my mind around this...

It's truly despicable of those people.  I'm apologize but I think it's a load of BS that the mother had no idea a gun was in that pouch.  Please!

I completely agree!!  That was a really thin vinyl pouch.  I think she and Stephanie realized that it was all going to come out and figured that it was time to try to cover themselves.  There's no way she thought that pouch contained some jewelry and a few watches.  That pouch didn't even look like it had any type of closure...   No zipper.  Nothing that I could see.  

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice4Jane wrote:David Griem asks to be removed as Bob Bashara's attorney
www.wxyz.com › News › Region › Wayne County
Jul 18, 2012 - 7 Action News has learned the Bob Bashara's attorney David Griem is ... Wednesday afternoon, Attorney David Griem declined an interview but ...

His [Griem's] attorney, Kenneth Mogill, contacted him a week ago and informed him he had informed Wayne County Prosecutors about the gun, he said.

“Mr. Griem acted appropriately, in a manner designed fully to protect and that did fully protect the integrity of potential evidence, and he was promptly, fully cooperative with authorities when contacted,” Mogill said via email Monday night.

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20130909/bashara-hearing-sex-lies-and-a-gun  

EllsBells wrote:The timing and circumstances of Griem giving the gun to authorities is hinky.

His [Griem's] attorney, Kenneth Mogill, contacted him a week ago and informed him he had informed Wayne County Prosecutors about the gun, he said.

“Mr. Griem acted appropriately, in a manner designed fully to protect and that did fully protect the integrity of potential evidence, and he was promptly, fully cooperative with authorities when contacted,” Mogill said via email Monday night.

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20130909/bashara-hearing-sex-lies-and-a-gun  

Fully cooperative with authorities when contacted, so apparently Griem didn't initiate the contact to authorities re the gun?  Hmm...

Remember that Stephanie found the bullets in mid August 2013, called the local Canadian police, who then transferred them to Wayne County authorities.  This is speculation, but at that point almost surely investigators interrogated Stephanie about this and likely asked her if she knew of any other evidence about a gun --- and she answered truthfully (perhaps under threat of prosecution for evidence tampering) that she had given the gun from the safety box to Griem.

Speculating further, that revelation caused the authorities to contact attorney Mogill in late August to get confirmation about Griem having the gun, Mogill confirmed it --- which has a different connotation than "informed Wayne County Prosecutors" about it as he stated above.  At that point, Griem "cooperated" with authorities.

Why else after holding the gun for 14 months, would Griem hand it over a few weeks after the bullets were found, especially since two "well regarded" attorneys advised  him in 2012 not to turn it over to investigators?  I think finding the bullets let to uncovering the gun as the timing is more than a coincidence, imo.

And how can Griem claim attorney-client privilege if the persons (Stephanie, Nancy, & Laura) who gave him the gun weren't even his clients?

Remember too it was sometime mid summer last year that his mother was recorded in a phone call from Bob in jail that she "was done with him." Wonder if finding the gun was one of the last straws ...



  

chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...

chewet wrote:

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.

Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.

Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!

EllsBells wrote:

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:

Justice4Jane wrote:Griem asked to step down around July 18, 2012.  When did he hide the gun for Bob?

Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.

Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!

We'll probably never know the true situation, but there are two possibilities:

a) Innocent version: Nancy deposited the bag of items from Bob into the safety deposit box in March 2012 and never looked at the items.  When she went back in July to get the will for revision, she inspected the box, saw the gun, was alarmed, then called Stephanie and Laura to meet her at the bank to view jointly the contents.

b) Nefarious version:  Nancy did inspect the contents before depositing them, saw the gun, but wanted to protect her son and said nothing.  Then when Bob's house of cards fell down --- especially his arrest for the hit on Gentz in June 2012 and other very incriminating evidence --- she realized that the game was up, that investigators could get a subpoena for the box, that she was the only one who deposited items since Jane's murder, and that she could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice (hiding evidence).  Angry that her son was setting her up, she established a ruse of wanting to revise her will, arranged for her daughter to come to town, and scheduled a joint "first" witnessing of the gun.

I don't know, lots of arguments on both sides:

a) Given that BB was a person of interest from the beginning, given his long history of deceit and using people --- which surely Nancy knew --- why wasn't she suspicious in March 2012 about the contents of the box and Bob's request that SHE deposit it? Did she still think her son wouldn't set up his mother as the fall-guy --- use her by claiming it was Mom's gun or that she was colluding in the crime?  

b) A mother's love is blind and even objective facts are protectively denied.

c) She was solidly behind her son in March 2012, but lost too much trust by July 2012 and threw in the towel.

d) She set it up that all three went along with the recommendation of giving the gun to Griem, knowing he could claim attorney-client privilege and effectively hide the gun.

Regardless, the discovery of the gun removes a HUGE argument for reasonable doubt. Gentz claims BB threatened to kill him with a gun if he didn't strangle Jane, but until Griem turned over the gun there was no evidence that Bob ever owned a gun which seriously undercut Gentz's credibility.

It seems to me that Prosecutors have corroborated by several sources all of Gentz's improbable story including:
--- a plan to kill Jane with an insulin overdose,
--- a plan to kill her by a t-bone car accident,
--- that Bob held a gun to him to strangle Jane.

Gentz may be intellectually challenged, but so far there is lots of credible corroboration for what seems an improbable story --- only goes to prove that truth is stranger than fiction.




.

smallal wrote:

EllsBells wrote:

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:Justice, there was a meeting at the Middlesex house between Griem, Ma Barker *cough*-- oops, I mean Bashara, Stephanie & Laura on July 7, 2012, a Saturday. After which, Stephanie testified she took Griem into the dining room, retrieved the pouch and handed him the gun.

Ma Barker -- I love it! I really wanted to believe she didn't know what was in the bag!

We'll probably never know the true situation, but there are two possibilities:

a) Innocent version: Nancy deposited the bag of items from Bob into the safety deposit box in March 2012 and never looked at the items.  When she went back in July to get the will for revision, she inspected the box, saw the gun, was alarmed, then called Stephanie and Laura to meet her at the bank to view jointly the contents.

b) Nefarious version:  Nancy did inspect the contents before depositing them, saw the gun, but wanted to protect her son and said nothing.  Then when Bob's house of cards fell down --- especially his arrest for the hit on Gentz in June 2012 and other very incriminating evidence --- she realized that the game was up, that investigators could get a subpoena for the box, that she was the only one who deposited items since Jane's murder, and that she could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice (hiding evidence).  Angry that her son was setting her up, she established a ruse of wanting to revise her will, arranged for her daughter to come to town, and scheduled a joint "first" witnessing of the gun.

I don't know, lots of arguments on both sides:

a) Given that BB was a person of interest from the beginning, given his long history of deceit and using people --- which surely Nancy knew --- why wasn't she suspicious in March 2012 about the contents of the box and Bob's request that SHE deposit it? Did she still think her son wouldn't set up his mother as the fall-guy --- use her by claiming it was Mom's gun or that she was colluding in the crime?  

b) A mother's love is blind and even objective facts are protectively denied.

c) She was solidly behind her son in March 2012, but lost too much trust by July 2012 and threw in the towel.

d) She set it up that all three went along with the recommendation of giving the gun to Griem, knowing he could claim attorney-client privilege and effectively hide the gun.

Regardless, the discovery of the gun removes a HUGE argument for reasonable doubt. Gentz claims BB threatened to kill him with a gun if he didn't strangle Jane, but until Griem turned over the gun there was no evidence that Bob ever owned a gun which seriously undercut Gentz's credibility.

It seems to me that Prosecutors have corroborated by several sources all of Gentz's improbable story including:
--- a plan to kill Jane with an insulin overdose,
--- a plan to kill her by a t-bone car accident,
--- that Bob held a gun to him to strangle Jane.

Gentz may be intellectually challenged, but so far there is lots of credible corroboration for what seems an improbable story --- only goes to prove that truth is stranger than fiction.




.

I like your nefarious mind ! Probably a combination of events you described but none as innocent as purported.

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...

makes me sick!! making money/ratings off of Jane's life. I wish there was a way this could be stopped. I wonder how Nancy Grace, et al would like it if her life (or her sibling or friend or parent) were put on display simply for viewers viewing entertainment. Seems like--in this case at least--these people are making their living off the blood of innocent victims!

GPPGRL wrote:(Obsessively viewing hours of testimony on YouTube. Search "Bashara".) Have to say I understand the logic of safeguarding the gun by Griem. It becomes potential "evidence" against his client when charges were filed and that is when it's existence had to be revealed. If BB had never been charged (and I shudder to think that could have happened), the gun as evidence in a crime is moot. In a court of law, it's not about what happened; it's about what you can prove happened beyond a shadow of doubt. So no charges filed/no evidence required.

EllsBells wrote:I can't find the FreeP live blog of the hearing for day 5, does anyone have a link?  Thanks.

Laker wrote:

Fifteen30 wrote:

chewet wrote:Was just scrolling through cable news channels and caught the tail end of HLN airing a clip called "Dead Wife Double Life."

Am thinking they might air a similar clip at 7 & 8 pm shows...

makes me sick!! making money/ratings off of Jane's life. I wish there was a way this could be stopped. I wonder how Nancy Grace, et al would like it if her life (or her sibling or friend or parent) were put on display simply for viewers viewing entertainment. Seems like--in this case at least--these people are making their living off the blood of innocent victims!

Hate to say it Fifteen, but Nancy Grace has built a career exploiting her own situation with her fiance's murder.  She brings it up every chance possible.  I'm with you!

Bricktop wrote:

EllsBells wrote:I can't find the FreeP live blog of the hearing for day 5, does anyone have a link?  Thanks.

http://www.freep.com/livestream/article/20130913/NEWS02/130912015/Watch-live-9-m-Testimony-continues-Bob-Bashara-preliminary-exam

WildChild wrote:Live streaming now on WDIV.com

EllsBells wrote:KING NAILED IT!  

chewet wrote:

EllsBells wrote:KING NAILED IT!  

Long live the King!!

Judge King is my hero!!! Called Monster out on everything!! Thank you, Judge. Thank you!!

kittygirl wrote:Master Rick aka Midnight Rider

way way way more sleazy than any of the convicts that they put up on the stand today.